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1:36 am
In a different Post Gar, you had recommended that I should slot Red AP gems. But why wouldn't I just gem Agility only? Doesn't Agility give you AP?
3:19 am
Maggot
August 9, 2010
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My understanding of this:
Marksman (low and medium gear) and Survival gem Agi for exactly that reason – it gives +AP and + crit, scales with talents and kings etc etc. All round yummy goodness.
Marks high-end (and possibly BM high end too) can use Armour Penetration because a lot of their damage is physical (non-elementsl/magical) and therefore can benefit a lot from large amounts of this (Arpen is worth more, the more of it you have).
BM at low – medium gear is often encouraged to use +AP gems, because your pet is a big portion of your DPS and your pet inherits AP directly from you. Since a gem of the same level gives twice as much AP from AP as AP from agi (i.e. 40 AP = 40 AP; 20 Agi = 20AP) the AP works out better overall for boosting both your hunter and your pet.
3:31 am
Rating Caps
- The Hit Cap: 8% (263 Hit Rating), 5% with Focused Aim
- The Haste Cap: 16% (523 Haste Rating), 0% for BM with Serpent’s Swiftness
- The Crit Cap: 104.8% (4,812 Crit Rating)
- The Armor Penetration Cap: 100% Armor Reduction (1,400 Armor Penetration Rating)
Stat Conversions
- 32.79 Hit Rating = 1% Hit Chance
- 32.79 Haste Rating = 1% Haste
- 45.91 Crit Rating = 1% Crit Chance
- 1 Agility = 1 Attack Power
- 14 Armor Penetration Rating = 1% Armor Reduction
- 83.33 Agility = 1% Crit Chance
- 1 Intellect = 1 Attack Power (with Careful Aim)
- 10 Stamina = 3 Attack Power (with Hunter vs Wild)
For BM yes you gem AP at start then when you hit a base cap of 450 ARP you will change gems for ARP, for MM I think they do it around 600 base cap? But they would gem AGI until that cap.
SV as far as I can remeber you just stick with AGI gems.
10:46 am
Proprietor
June 21, 2008
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Keoke said:
In a different Post Gar, you had recommended that I should slot Red AP gems. But why wouldn't I just gem Agility only? Doesn't Agility give you AP?
Gemming attack power gives you twice as much AP than if you were to use comparable agility gems. In Cataclysm, agility will provide 2 attack power, but for now, it only provides one. Since your pet only inherits your attack power, and not your crit rating, Beast Masters benefit a bit more from straight AP, rather than agility.
It's not a huge difference though, so if you like to switch between specs, or are flirting with the idea of changing to MM or SV, just go with agility.
Patch 3.2.2 (…I think it was) shifted the Beast Mastery damage ratio even more in favor of the hunter, so therefore agility became a bit better for BM at that point. With the pet playing a lesser role in the overall damage equation, hunter crits become more important.
As others have mentioned, armor pen is also something to look at once you rach a certain level of it passively. The bulk of a Beast Master's damage comes by way of Auto and Steady Shots – both physical damage shots.
12:13 pm
Jedi
August 1, 2010
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Actually, since the nerf to BW, and the slight buff to TBW, Agi pulls ahead for BM at medium gear levels, due to the fact that more of the damage was shifted to the hunter rather than the pet.
The breakdowns are all on EJ.
3:49 am
Omigosh I am so confused on this whole armor penetration vs agility thing. I am fairly geared(will include armory below) and I'm deffinitely NOT impressed with my DPS. I followed Gar's enchantment almost to the T so I am confident that is all set, but the gems? I am just flailing around in the dark… I saw another MM hunter in a raid with me yesterday, he/she(you never know these days…) had some heroic gear and whatnot and my GS told me he/she was just under 6K. Almost every item was filled with ArP gems and her DPS was sick!
Here is their armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/chara…..;cn=Sparka
We both are MM spec'd 7/57/7 with a few different talent point choices, but who's to say which is better, I honestly am no expert and I did research which talent build was best before I respec'd my talents.
My armory:
http://www.wowarmory.com/chara…..;cn=Idrial
I can't for the life of me find where my armor penetration stat is!! I've googled the crap out of it and still have no answers! Do I just look through all my gear and add it up manually?
I am also aware that I am 18 points above my hit rating cap, not too sure how to fix that besides getting rid of the Mark of Supremacy trinket which will cut my hit rating down to 153 =/
I would greatly appreciate any advice/criticism/whatever!
Thanks =)
6:10 am
Jedi
August 1, 2010
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Hover your mouse over your hit rating.
And honestly, that other hunter is gimping their DPS by gemming ArP at the point they are, as they are at 815 AFTER gemming, you want to be around 
0(if you are a BS/JC) or 900 or so if you are not a BS/JC, before gemming.
And define what you call sick DPS.
Also, drop the MoS and pick up 3/3 Focused Aim, and maybe a hit gem and bam! Maybe a couple points over hit cap, but that's ok, you now have space for a better trinket.
7:28 am
That tricky bugger! I'm used to checking my mobile armory and it definitely doesn't give that mouse over option.
You're right, they are most certainly a JC so they are pretty much going all ArP out. She was doing over 10k DPS mostly every fight, I'm lucky if I make over 7k with party buffs and depending on how many mobs I'm attacking with AoE.
So basically since I am not a JC or BS I should be getting up to 900 armor pen simply with gear before even socketing ArP gems? From an earlier post I understand that the ArP cap is 1400 so I will be gemming for the extra 500? Little lost on that part.
Last note, if I am to plug 2 more points into the Focused Aim(since I currently only have 1) which two should I ditch? From my research the BM and SV points are legit, but there are still the 57 I have to figure out for the MM. I've read each one and have tried to decide which ones are more beneficial, but I would greatly appreciate some more advice on that part, respecing sure isn't cheap!
Thanks for the info so far! =)
11:59 am
Jedi
August 1, 2010
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Ok, this DPS was in what instance? If it's ICC, 10k with the gear she has is less than impressive…
And yeah, it's slightly annoying to find the ArP stat on the character sheet, until you get used to it.
Yes, it's also a good idea to make sure you have plenty of sockets, while using the appropriate gearing strategy, you should have them of course by the time you hit 900, but I've seen people rushing for it and really hurting themselves, but at this point, Cata is so close I'm honestly just thinking it would be better for you to not worry about ArP at all.
For focused aim, it's fairly simple to find the points, 1 point out of rapid recup, mana should not be much of an issue, but if there is any, just the 1 point in it will go a long way, you can drop points from ISS, it's one of the lower DPS per point talents in the tree, and of course, my favourite place to scavenge a point, TSA, provided of course you have someone else who brings the 10% AP buff.
7:45 am
Heh, we were in a classic raid. MC to be exact. I don't have a lot of hunter friends on my server so I basically just inspect and ask questions from time to time. Gorefiend is poo-poo. Seriously considering moving to a new(non-pvp)server.
Cataclysm is close now, just a couple more months! And yeah, we will not be needing mana so out goes the two in Rapid Recoup! I noticed you didn't have TSA on your talent tree and I thought, how clever! There is ALWAYS another hunter that has it on, right?!
So for the time being I shall stack my agility gems, pray I get into a decent ICC pug(hahahahhha!) and roll highest for awesome upgrades, save up some frost for a trinket to replace MoS(or have one drop, even better), and await the arrival of Cataclysm so I can prowl the world as a savage werewolf!
Thank you Indomitus for all your help =)
8:14 am
I have run into a situation relating to this. I know the base cap for ArP before you start gemming as an MM hunter is around 0. But, I have seen hunters fully gemmed in ArP that only have 0-900 ArP after gemming that really thrown down the dps. I am averaging 8.5 – 9.5 or so in ICC with my current setup(this is boss dps of course, trash means nothing) and did an 11.3k on BQL, with a 5922gs. I ran with a 5.7gs MM Hunter that was fully gemmed ArP and only had around 900 ArP, and he blew me out of the water, by a good 2.5k dps. We had the same 7/57/7 spec. Every hunter I have seen out dps me has been fully gemmed ArP with an ArP of 0 – 1200 after gemming. So, either my dps just pure sucks, or the base ArP of 0 could actually be less and still be effective.
8:25 am
Lodge Muse
Moderators
July 3, 2010
Offline
Gems and talents are being changed in the very near future.
Also bear in mind that shot rotation, connection response time to the server, movement, and staggering your trinket procs etc also has a huge effect.
6:35 pm
Officer
Moderators
September 8, 2010
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What do we know about gems and enchants these days…well mainly gems I suppose, since enchants shouldn't have changed. Gar, is your gem and enchant guide still what I should be using to gem my gear, or have things changed up any?
6:40 pm
Proprietor
June 21, 2008
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Only changes would be to go for +hit in your blue sockets, and agility in all of your red sockets.
Apart from that, agility/crit or agility/haste in the yellows.
Like this:
Red = 20 agility
Yellow = 10agility/10crit or 10agility/10haste
Blue = 20 hit or 10hit/10agility
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