Quoted from Warcraft Hunters Union…………………
For those of you who don’t listen to the Hunting Party Podcast, which I know is most of you, there was some interesting insight from our guest, healer Dawn Moore. Unlike most of us, Dawn has actually been raiding in Cataclysm already. In addition to talking a bit about raiding in general, she’s also been tracking what the top raid guilds are doing — and they’re doing some interesting things with hunters.
Specifically survival hunters are doing so much dps (and warlocks as well) that raids are hunter stacking — putting as many hunters as possible in their raids, because it’s just better than using other dps classes, and better enough that they think it increases their chances of success.
This is a bad thing.
It’s certainly nice on the surface that we’re so awesome, but the moment the leading raid teams start stacking certain classes (and then all the follow-up server-first teams start emulating them) is the moment that you can feel the shadow of the nerf bat overhead.
Now that I’ve spent a lot more time running through heroics, and with more people, I feel like I have a bit better grasp on where SV is at. I still think that SV’s dps feels too high — but it’s really only a bit too high. My great fear is that SV will get over-nerfed as a reaction from the onslaught of other class qq that’s going to hit.
Personally, here’s what I’m thinking I’d do to try to balance things:
- Reduce the SV specialization that boosts agility by 15% — knock that down a few percent.
- Boost SV’s mastery to 1.1 – 1.2% per mastery to make the stat a bit more interesting compared to crit.
- Boost the BM mastery significantly, up to maybe around 2.2 – 2.3% per mastery.
- Boost MM’s dps an equivalent chunk — partially by boosting the Aimed Shot damage (hopefully making the shot worthwhile as an opener) and partially by tweaking the MM auto-shot specialization up — their mastery is in a pretty nice place so I wouldn’t mess with that.
The idea here is to have BM/MM buffed and SV nerfed so that they come together at a happy meeting place somewhere in the middle — while at the same time doing some stat balancing. BM and MM are pretty equivalent right now, so we’d want to buff them 5 – 8% or so, while taking SV down 5-8%.
I know that many SV hunters are going to feel personally betrayed by my suggestion that they need a nerf. But as always, there are no emotions in the world seen through Frostheim Goggles, only facts. I want us to be balanced, at which point our superior skill will shine through to put us on the top of the meters.
Blah
This was interesting, Tak. I'm MM now and a few bubbs from 85. Have just been leveling on BM and MM to get my pets and leveling up, then will crunch out the heroics along with our slew of 85s. Was having a chat with a couple of other hunters in our guild, and they are both really enjoying the numbers coming out of SV right now, but they too say it's too high, and are afraid of repercussions.
I don't doubt it will get nerfed some. I am one bubble into 84 and running about 6k in instances. It will be interesting to see what happens. I redid my talents last night and changed my rotation adding Cobra back in and learning Aspect of the Fox.
What I'm seriously afraid of is that the nerf will be way over done like BM was back in WotLK. They nerfed it so bad hardly anyone wanted to play the spec anymore. While I certainly give a cheer inside that SV Hunters are topping dps charts, I give an outward sigh that doom is headed SVs way. Guess we shall have to wait and see.
all through reading the article, i kept thinking "oooh nooo...!!! Been there in BM, don't nerf again!!!!" rofl
I keep trying to mess with the BM spec and just can't seem to grasp it - or maybe it is the OCD and the resistance to change. If it gets nerfed I probably won't notice much since I'm not a DPS chart topper. If I do notice I'll quietly have my nerd rage tantrum, go order some Cole Hann boots and then resume play.
I need a "Dummies" guide to mastery.
You know, as a PvE/PvP person I understand what you are saying in regards to "balancing out" survival's damage to other Hunter specs, but, This is the wrong thing to do.
Blizzard should make all Hunter specs viable for both play in the game, it's harder to nerf and bring things in line, then it is to buff something to a point of harmony in MMO games "I know, I use to help design half the games on the market now". I'm currently Survival spec (after dropping my Shaman as my main) and, I love the damage put out on my Hunter (I don't have to pet dance all the time).
PvP, which a lot of people really don't look at as a Hunter, takes a lot of practice (melee folks focus me all the time in PvP) and I think we should stay in line with Warlocks, elemental Shamans and the such, because if not, then most people who have rolled Hunters (that PvP) will not play them.
I say, make the other two specs just as good in the damage department (I hate the word "Dps") and viable "like Shaman and Warlocks and the problem will be solved.
I hope they do not mess with SV as it is my favorite spec right now with Marksman a strong second (I find BM boring to play).
It's not the Surv. DPS that impresses me. It's their crowd control. One of my best friend rolls survival and I insist on having him in my groups when I tank. A talented Surv. hunter is worth his weight in gold.
Bobàfett said:
It's not the Surv. DPS that impresses me. It's their crowd control. One of my best friend rolls survival and I insist on having him in my groups when I tank. A talented Surv. hunter is worth his weight in gold.
Wish there was more players out there like you. Still lots that think dps is the end all and be all of things.
Snux said:
You know, as a PvE/PvP person I understand what you are saying in regards to "balancing out" survival's damage to other Hunter specs, but, This is the wrong thing to do.
Blizzard should make all Hunter specs viable for both play in the game, it's harder to nerf and bring things in line, then it is to buff something to a point of harmony in MMO games "I know, I use to help design half the games on the market now". I'm currently Survival spec (after dropping my Shaman as my main) and, I love the damage put out on my Hunter (I don't have to pet dance all the time).
PvP, which a lot of people really don't look at as a Hunter, takes a lot of practice (melee folks focus me all the time in PvP) and I think we should stay in line with Warlocks, elemental Shamans and the such, because if not, then most people who have rolled Hunters (that PvP) will not play them.
I say, make the other two specs just as good in the damage department (I hate the word "Dps") and viable "like Shaman and Warlocks and the problem will be solved.
I hope they do not mess with SV as it is my favorite spec right now with Marksman a strong second (I find BM boring to play).
I agree with this totally. As far as MM Hunters go, one thing I wish they would do is put Aimed Shot back to its hard hitting damage, it's pretty "blah" right now.
Takaas said:
Bobàfett said:
It's not the Surv. DPS that impresses me. It's their crowd control. One of my best friend rolls survival and I insist on having him in my groups when I tank. A talented Surv. hunter is worth his weight in gold.
Wish there was more players out there like you. Still lots that think dps is the end all and be all of things.
Most of the people that think that haven't been progressing through Cataclysm stuff. I started a guild just a few days after launch and we have been rushing to catch up to the top guilds. The only way we've found that will push us threw the heroics is CC. Seems like every boss fight in Cata involves some crazy strategy. Hence, hunters have become very valuable. Although I disagree with the stacking hunters maneuver. Having one hunter is mandatory; Survival is by far the best due to the longer traps. Second would be BM due to the variety of pets and the burst damage they can do to a boss especially since there are several fights that require burst instead of sustained. But I'd rather have a shaman or mage instead of a second hunter because of polymorph or hex.
Abbynormal said:
Blah
Blah to you Abs!
Sounds like another .. we will have to roll with the punches thing. This sucks, I have a hunter in my guild who is absolutely loving Survi at the moment. He never shuts up about it. I will have to try it out once I get up to 85 and see.
Trapping = fun times can't wait.
Bobàfett said:
It's not the Surv. DPS that impresses me. It's their crowd control. One of my best friend rolls survival and I insist on having him in my groups when I tank. A talented Surv. hunter is worth his weight in gold.
Takaas said:
Wish there was more players out there like you. Still lots that think dps is the end all and be all of things.
Bobàfett said:
Most of the people that think that haven't been progressing through Cataclysm stuff. I started a guild just a few days after launch and we have been rushing to catch up to the top guilds. The only way we've found that will push us threw the heroics is CC. Seems like every boss fight in Cata involves some crazy strategy. Hence, hunters have become very valuable. Although I disagree with the stacking hunters maneuver. Having one hunter is mandatory; Survival is by far the best due to the longer traps. Second would be BM due to the variety of pets and the burst damage they can do to a boss especially since there are several fights that require burst instead of sustained. But I'd rather have a shaman or mage instead of a second hunter because of polymorph or hex.
MM can be pretty decent at trapping as well. We have Readiness. I know my fellow guildies like taking me on heroic runs over some of the other Hunters because I am good at trapping, even though I have lower dps.