Still gettin smoked by Surv hunters! - Builds, Talents and Class Mechanics - Hunter Forums
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8:53 pm
I have been raiding my tush off! My gear is shiny and awesome! my dps is really good now (thanks to all yalls help and said shiny new gear!) But I am still gettin SMOKED by surv hunters, one with like 500 less gs than me is blowing me away! Out of curiosity (and because people keep sayin if i was surv with my gear i'd be tearing shit up!) I went to female dwarf and compared Gar's surv spec with my MM spec. The site says its a nearly 1000dps LOSS! I checked out my spec with all ArP gems, still a LOSS! I built a new PC, so lag wasnt an issue! My rotation is flawless, I am fairly certain I play my class very well, if not close to perfectly… so why are surv hunters with lower gear still killing me on the meters?? Honeslty, if MM is supposedly the top DPS spec for hunters atm, what am I missing? Im near 6k gs now, and I am gettin smoked by a guy with less than 5500. I CAN pull up to 10k single target in icc 25, but when i do, these Surv's are pulling like 11-12k… always 1-2k ahead of me… its frustrating the crap outta me….
So what the heck am I missing?
http://www.wowarmory.com/chara…..cn=Maliiss
/end vent
I'm always down for yalls advice, if i'm bein an idiot, feel free to say so… wont hurt my feelings 
~Malice
12:31 am
Officer
May 28, 2010
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Is someone complaining about your dps? 10k in ICC25 is pretty dang good in my book. My advice, dont obsess over it. Your doing good dps and unless people in the raid are complaining about it, don't let it bother you. If you obsess over it to much, you will ruin the game for yourself. I speak from experience.
I used to be all about the numbers. I obsessed over my dps. I was always letting it upset me that I couldn't beat the Mages in the group or that the SV Hunter was still staying ahead of me. Finally one day after banging my head against the wall one to many times, I realized, hey, no one is complaining and I'm putting out enough damage that I'm contributing to the raid. The raid and the game got better for me since then. At some point you just got to let it go. There is the old saying, "no matter how good you are, there is always someone better out there."
7:36 am
I'm not going to argue your logic lol! It makes perfect sense, and TBH the only people who ever comment on my DPS are said SV hunters! Almost as if they are gloating? The funny thing is, one or 2 of them are always doing something stupid, causing raid wipes… so yea, the DPS is outstanding, but one newb move gets us all killed, so i'm confident i'm a more aware player. The raid/guild leader keeps commenting in vent that people with lower dps are going to be replaced! I'm pretty sure i'm not in any danger there (consistently around 6th on the meter in 25 mans) but i guess it just makes me nervous that I can't keep up with them, and knowing MM is supposed to be higher I just feel like I could be doing more… know what I mean?
I probably am obsessing, but the competition IS part of the fun for me. I never worry about out DPS'n the mages or boomkins, or any other class, it is just the other hunters that get me all crazy! 
BTW, grats Takaas and Niika on your promotions! Yall deserve it
~Malice
9:50 am
Officer
May 28, 2010
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Wish I could tell you why your not passing them up in dps. You have great gear, spec'd right, the right pet, doing the right rotation. I don't know. Movement fights I have found drops MM Hunter dps a bit. SV is a more mobile dps. There are quite a few mobile fights in ICC. I don't know if this is a factor in your situation. I will give this some more thought and get back to you.
10:14 am
Lodge Muse
July 3, 2010
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Do you have any raid logs posted at World of Logs? I'd like to see the numbers. Most of the SV hunters I run with who top out in DPS come in on the low end of overall damage, due to the aoe on the skellies. What are your damage numbers looking like too? There are so many things that a raid leader has to look at. DPS means only damage per second – while you are alive.
12:21 pm
Officer
May 28, 2010
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Just thought of something. Are you judging off of overall dps for that run or just for a particular fight? If your going by overall dps for the run are you using volley on mobs? Overall dps drops if you aren't using volley on trash pulls.
2:15 pm
I don't even know what World of logs is, so I couldnt say either way on that one :-/
I watch only the "current fight" meter during the raid, and after the raid look at overall. I am almost always ahead of the SV's on the overall meter, usually in 2nd or 3rd, because- like you said- of the AOE on trash and such. I DO find myself moving a lot in ICC and I know that hurts a little. But some of those fights, well if you stay still you die! I have never really paid attention to the "damage done" meter. Honestly, I never gave that one much thought. I do know that my raid leader judges mostly off the dps current fight meter, which is the one I am struggling with lol.
The leader of my 10 man run uses the overall meter, but i'm the only hunter and am always on top in that one (unless this one DK shows than im 2nd lol).
Yea, im obsessing, you're right Tak! But I think i can't help myself 
~Malice
11:53 pm
Like everyone is saying – you are doing good dps dont stress bla bla bla
But if you are like me – "dont stress about it" wont work.
Been looking through your stuff, and one thing that strikes me is you have pretty low Armor Penetration for the high GS you have.
You only have 470arp from your gear – I strongly suggest you try to change some of your gear to more "obvious" marksman items that provide you with ArP. Neither of your trinkets give you arp and this is a huge loss for you.
And Herkuml War Totem is one of the worst trinkets around – change it for Greatness or something if you cant find a better one with armor pen.
7:45 am
I'm holding on to the war token til I get my hands on DBW… and its a DPS loss to drop it for anything else I currently have in the bank (NES, darkmoon card, banner, triumph trinks)
And all of the ArP pieces I have gotten in ICC, when plugged into famaledwarf, cause a DPS loss. Which is the opposite of what i'm going for. Gemming ArP also says a DPS loss…. so, I have hit a brick wall with the ArP situation 
~Malice
9:25 am
SV is great for big numbers. MM is great for overall Damage.
Both specs are great to play for PvE. Don't get frustrated. We're OP lol
9:39 am
Ok so I just got hit with my first REAL contridiction in femaledwarf vs target dummies. I saw a good 400+ dps boost on the dummies using the NES over the war token, whereas femaledwarf reported replacing the token with NES as a dps loss. So I think in thursdays icc 25 run i'm going to run with the NES instead and see how it compares to the SV (and the now MM kicking my ass with a 5600 gs because he has DBW!)
If I could just get my hands on the stupid tokens to upgrade my T10 pieces, that would raise my ArP too! Damn the EPGP system and the raid leader always beating me out for em! argh….
~Malice
10:55 am
Femaledwarf overvalues haste as it does not factor movement into the encounters. You are better off with NES and banner (unless you have one of the following) until you get WFS, DBW or the scale from RS.
12:01 pm
I am pairing the NES with the WFS for now, will see on Thursday how it rolls in ICC
12:30 pm
Excellent I'd like to know how that works for you. From all the research I've done the HWT falls below some of the ilvl200 trinks in raid dps.
1:19 pm
Officer
May 28, 2010
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When testing dps increase/loss I like to take on a "hands on" approach. If I say, get a new trinket, I hold on to the old one and in the next raid test out the new one. As said above, most places like femaledwarf.com do not factor in everything that comes into a fight.
2:24 am
You are obsessing over female dwarf – stop using the spread sheet and test in raid. I doubt high arp gear lowers your dps no matter what mrs dwarf says.
12:43 pm
It is not worth gemming for Arpen unless you can get close to the 1400 cap, which usually means having 
0-900 passive arpen from gear alone. Anything less on your gear and you are better off stacking agility in red and blues, and agil+crit in yellows.
7:29 pm
Jedi
August 1, 2010
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Something all of you would do well to keep in mind is that the spreadsheets model both ArP and Haste a little higher than in real world applications for most people, due to it modelling them on a stand still fight, both Haste and ArP take a fair hit when moving, due to the shots that supply the bulk of the boost from either stat being adversely affected by movement, this is the reason you want to hold off gemming ArP until it's at least a 200 DPS increase on the spreadsheet.
As for NES versus HWT, both suck, but HWT is the better of the two, and anecdotal evidence is so suspect that it's barely worth trying them, as it takes tens of thousands of iterations of tests to iron out the RNG to the point where you will truly be able to tell the difference, that and that you never have full/any raid buffs aside from your own on the target dummy, whereas the spreadsheets account for them.
Also, you only use hybrid gems to fulfil a socket bonus, if you cannot do so, use a pure gem of the type appropriate for your gear level, and do not use the off set frost pieces if you could otherwise have 4p T10, it's a needless loss of DPS.
8:25 pm
I don't know for sure if the NES won out over the war token tonight, as I was so far down on the meter it was pathetic, due to 1k latency the whole freakin raid. Ever since last reset I have been in the red… very frustrating!
On the upside, I managed to get a token tonight, to upgrade my T10 helm, and Wodin's to upgrade my neck, but didnt get to see what they did for my DPS.
But AGAIN I had to listen to another hunter lecture me on why I should gem ArP… and even a freakin shammy when i asked him to cut my my AGI gems had to throw in "wouldnt ArP be better for a MM hunter?" Then it was you should go SV with your gear, blah blah blah…. geez!
I do have Hersir's greatspear in the bank (+109 ArP) but its a good bit of a stat loss over my Distant land, and a huge DPS loss on dummies. Guess I can try that in my next raid, see if it makes a difference? IDK…. Arent they removing ArP in cata anyway?? Should I even be worrying about this so close to xpac?
8:30 pm
Jedi
August 1, 2010
Offline
Min/Maxing is always worth worrying about, even with the expansion several months off.
As far as people telling you what to do in pugs, ignore them, 90% of them know dick all about anything.
And again, do not use the target dummy for DPS tests it is literally the most inaccurate way to measure your DPS as there are no raid buffs/debuffs beyond what you supply to give you a proper benchmark, as well as them not being affected by Imp. Tracking, as well as the fact that the raw amount of tests you would need to run to get an accurate result on the test dummy would take you weeks of non stop playing around the clock.
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