"Hunter take Adds" - Whaaaa? - Builds, Talents and Class Mechanics - Hunter Forums
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1:56 pm
Hi folks, new guy here, learning as much as I can to get better. Got a 85 MM Hunter on Frostmourne, been grinding through p.u.g.'s to improve my gear, and also researching a lot to improve my pitiful DPS.
I recently realized I didn't have any enchants on my gear so I'm going broke buying those and building up. Ultimate goal is to have a (nearly) complete set of Flamewaker's. /drool Anyway, to make a short story even longer…
After tweaking gear with enchants (gems already done), and feeling good about dps, I joined my first-ever 25-man group going after Nef. Inside, they declared, "Hunter take adds!" I'm usually fine with that, whipping out the turtle pet and turning on it's Growl, running and Conc-shotting, and dropping Ice Traps.
However, the adds were frickin elites (I think) and were barely taking any damage from me. Plus, seems in my panic I forgot to watch my pets health, it was dead, and I was next. Having to run and shoot severely hampered my dps (I'm not too skilled in mobile dps), although I was able to stay on top of my timers. Well, I failed at add-control, party got wiped, I got blamed and booted.
I'm trying to get better at raids. So I'm here to ask, "How can I manage adds and not get killed?"
Thanks!
Warranthunt
MM Hunter
iLvl – 371
Achv – 2020
Frostmourne
2:34 pm
Lodge Muse
July 3, 2010
Offline
Looks like you are a quick learner. Gonna make two recommendations.
PVP – its going to sound counter intuitive, but some of the best kiters i've seen have been PVP'ers. They know how to disengage and strafe, all while keeping an eye on pet health since it is an integral part of their skills. Don't worry about gearing up; I've found that if I can stay away from the flipping rogues, I still get decent experience as a MM hunter. You are focusing not on damage or overall kills, but in developing your ballet feet.
Solo'ing dungeons – bring your tank pet and start in BC dungeons and work your way up as you get more skill. Frost freeze trap/disengage/strafe/aggro & pet management. As you build confidence, work your way up the food chain to see how high you can get.
As for Cata adds, each dungeon I have found has specific strategies for working the adds. It is imperative if you wish to help a successful raid team, that you know how to handle a face full of teeth coming at you, all while not dropping aggro on the nearest healer (but do feel free to drop it on the mage out-deepsing you.)
Do you have a DPS neck and trinket? Also, have you considered getting a belt buckle and agi'ing it as well?
8:22 pm
Veteran
April 10, 2010
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I have no idea how many members on here but whatever the number, I'm the least talented n have the lack of skills to prove it however what Niika the Queen Bee says makes sense. This is from my solo only thing not PvP, my next area of failure. Running heroic WotLK 5 mans forces you to move. I jump around like a spastic puppet on speed. The great thing about soloing is you learn CC with your pet. Cos if he goes, you go. You'll be playing that turtle like a violin. Also it gets you off the DPS fixation as what matters is the 'It's dead, I'm not" meter. An added bonus is if you don't move, you die.
As Niika stated, this gets you twinkling on your toes. You'll constantly be on the move or should be-especially with the trash, and that will force you to start using frost , explosive, jump disengage, strafing, misdirection and all the tools in the toolbox while dealing damage. Rarely will you need concussive. Ocassionally a scatter if you screw-up aggro. Whole point is you will get used to firing on the move, controlling your pet, switching from AotH to AotF (something I surely do not do enough) anticipating your next shot and eventually it becomes 2nd nature. I'm hoping it does for me someday.
There is a daily quest in Hyjal where you have to whack 6 pyrelords n such. I find that I end up with an unwanted group on occasion and I'm the only one moving a lot, dropping frost traps etc. instead of just standing around firing away. I'm not a spellcaster. Good practice on harder hitting higher HP mobs and you wont get the boot! As you sound more experienced than me (oooh that's so hard to be) you'll be a raiding machine in no time , especially if a few other folks on here add to Niika's succinct input and for me……well there's always cooking.
5:20 am
Officer
May 28, 2010
Offline
(1) What adds were they having you kite?
(2) Was the raid group a pug? If it was, don't let their judgement of you bother you to much, they are usually filled with bunch of idiots. If I was to let every bad thing said to me in a pug bother me, I would have quit the game long ago. It is one of the negatives that come with being a Hunter, we have to live with and deal with the false image that we are all a bunch of idiots behind the class.
(3) If you were kiting stuff, there is no way your going to keep your dps up. You will end up swapping into Aspect of the Fox so you can fire off some stead shots to replenish your focus.
6:24 am
Veteran
April 10, 2010
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Heya Takaas-This morning I was thinking about this. Given you know a lot , why would he be kiting in this situation anyhow? When I've been soloing 5's the only mob I ever kite or have to kite is a boss. Everything else is CC, ocasionally a pull but that's because I'm soloing.
If he's being told to do the wrong things or isn't aware of the best way to CC the adds it's always gonna be a trainwreck. Would he or should he not have been told to CC the adds without kiting em all over the place? I know little about that aspect of the game but it seems to me that kiting mobs in a group scenario in an instance is a good way to f-up the entire run if he was expected to handle all of them. I've read a fair amount of what you and others, particularly Drach have written in case I ever get frisky and do the group thing and most centers around specific CC, not kiting. Perhaps if you explain how you handle the adds that would be most helpful to him and others-for me too. He sure as hell can't rely on other players it seems otherwise he wouldn't be here.
8:43 am
Thanks everyone for the info, it definitely helps. Let me try to answer some of the questions put out to clarify things a bit:
- It was a pug, which I'm usually fine with. This was the first Nef run for me so I really had no idea what was going to happen. I hurriedly asked my guild, they said run to my assigned pillar quick. I also quickly read a bit of the Dungeon Boss Guide ("keep the two dragons apart") was as far as I got before start.
- PVP…I've done lots, just not one of the leet-hakz0rz types. I'm usually in the top 30% of "Most Damage", sometimes in the top 5 if there's a bunch of chuckleheads. I try to use Conc, Scatter, Silence (on casters and those frickin' healers), and lots of Chimera when its ready. Mark and Sting, and AOE traps on the Rogues so they can't vanish. I DO need to train my fingers off the A and D keys + mouse, and use more of Q and E. I've been getting in the habit of saving Freezing Trap for when I'm pounced by a melee class so I can escape. However the smarter foes have a trinket that dispels that quickly so my safety is short lived.
- Soloing bigger mobs would indeed help me train. I've taken on that daily quest in Tol Borad (the elite shark) and can solo that easily once the turtle has aggro. But that's a single mob, no AOE I have to avoid, relatively easy.
- I absolutely need to get good at jump disengage. Right now I'd leap myself off a cliff and die. "I can see my house from heeeeerree…!"
- I'm not sure what the adds were called that I was supposed to cover, but I guessed it was everything besides the dragons. Dark, tall, things they were. There was about 5 or 6 at a time. They were all over the place, and I was torn between staying at my pillar or crossing the floor to go get one.
- I didn't think of CC'ing them, but that might have been the best way to handle one. I'm just not sure how I would have handled aggro on 4 others coming at me. They were also as fast as I was, since I was running away and they were keeping up. I'd drop traps when able, but dare not turn to shoot as I'd get pounced (note to self – practice jump disengage). I also didn't want to use Cheetah for speed since one hit would stun me = dead.
- I'm pretty thick skinned and have been booted before for stupid reasons, so not too worried. The good side is that this brings up things for me to think about and resolve, with all your kind help. I definitely appreciate it.
8:52 am
Lodge Muse
July 3, 2010
Offline
KK, thanks, it helps to know it's a Nef fight. Each fight has it's own strategy.
1 – as you are jumping off the shelf onto the main floor, drop a frost trap right under where you anticipate one of the spawn points to be, while targeting the boss, and arcane shot on the dragon as you are falling.
2 – right before those suckers spawn there's a swirl and darkness in the air; your trap should be almost ready to go again. Turn off the dragon, drop another frost and start kiting. MD to your turtle – rapid fire – multishot until gone, steady – steady – readiness – rapid-fire – multishot, keep moving back. Keep the frost trap on cool down.
3 – kinda easier to have a DK or Pallie and MD the Multi on them along with DnD or Consecr instead of your pet, while keeping on the dragons. You can't' really tell a raid leader what works better, but that's what i've seen be more successful in pug runs since they have more health. Those adds do go down quickly.
Sounds like you have the right combo, just need group coordination, that's all. <3
9:38 am
Veteran
April 10, 2010
Offline
I have disengage bound to 'V'. After a bit of practice you virtually hit V and the spacebar simultaneously. To get proficient at it (by my low standards) I practiced doing it in a controlled area, as in I'd pop of a multi at a group positioning myself so I'd hit a wall or whatever behind me. After that, you learn your distance.
Also, there is this mythical thing known as a 'jump shot' that I cannot do consistently enough to trust-big surprise there. Anyhow what I've come up with is the "Agio's Running Away Half Turn, Shoot, Half Turn Back n keep runnin" Shot. Wordy but effective.
Instructions: Fire shot, turn around n start runnin away-you can be angled for a strafe, doesn't matter, jump turn mouse left or right, pop off shot, turn mouse back in reverse order of original n keep running. Rinse repeat. Great to practice with Concussive. Only have to do a wee turn back n forth with the mouse so you don't screw up or end up looking at the sky as I do most times on a jump shot. Worked great kiting Deth'tilac.
Niika so much needs me in the Bees-they're too proficient at the game, lol
9:46 am
Officer
May 28, 2010
Offline
Agio said:
Heya Takaas-This morning I was thinking about this. Given you know a lot , why would he be kiting in this situation anyhow? When I've been soloing 5's the only mob I ever kite or have to kite is a boss. Everything else is CC, ocasionally a pull but that's because I'm soloing.
If he's being told to do the wrong things or isn't aware of the best way to CC the adds it's always gonna be a trainwreck. Would he or should he not have been told to CC the adds without kiting em all over the place? I know little about that aspect of the game but it seems to me that kiting mobs in a group scenario in an instance is a good way to f-up the entire run if he was expected to handle all of them. I've read a fair amount of what you and others, particularly Drach have written in case I ever get frisky and do the group thing and most centers around specific CC, not kiting. Perhaps if you explain how you handle the adds that would be most helpful to him and others-for me too. He sure as hell can't rely on other players it seems otherwise he wouldn't be here.
Well, the intent of my first question was/is to find out why and where they are having him kite adds. I've not been asked to kite adds in any of the new Cataclysm raids. I only partake in 10-man raids though, so there might be some mechanic different for the 25-man.
An example of the cc I usually get asked to do. In the Firelands raid there are Flamewaker packs that patrol. Amongst a pack of them will be Flamewaker Cauterizers (healers). Since there is two of them in a pack, it is hard to just burn them down right away, so we crowd control them. The raid I am involved in we have another Hunter and myself. Usual scenario is we wait till they are pathing close and drop a freeze trap right in front of them so they walk right into it. It takes a little timing, as they are grouped up and you cant trap one of the fighters in front of them by mistake. Anyways, after trapping the healers we burn down the fighters and then eliminate the healers one by one. I use an addon to track the time on my frozen target, when its about to expire I toss another freeze trap on him. Oh and the raid leader usually assigns icons for trap targets. For example I usually get assigned blue square and the other Hunter gets yellow star. When we get ready to take on a pull, the raid leader slaps an icon on which target he wants which Hunter to trap.
Now, there will come situations where things go bad and you are needed to trap something without getting a proper set up. You may have to lure your target into your trap. Drop a trap between you and your target and distracting shot it. This will cause it to come after you and step into your trap. If its some sort of caster try to line of sight it by hiding behind something or if your MM you can silence shot it.
9:50 am
Officer
May 28, 2010
Offline
Niika said:
3 – kinda easier to have a DK or Pallie and MD the Multi on them along with DnD or Consecr instead of your pet, while keeping on the dragons. You can't' really tell a raid leader what works better, but that's what i've seen be more successful in pug runs since they have more health. Those adds do go down quickly.
Sounds like you have the right combo, just need group coordination, that's all. <3
This is the way I've always seen it done.
4:05 pm
Lodge Muse
July 3, 2010
Offline
yeah, but Tak, raid leaders have to learn too. Sometimes its hard to suggest something so that they can own it, if you know what i mean.
Niika so much needs me in the Bees-they're too proficient at the game, lol
I dare you to show up on a Firelands run and say that. Double dog dare you.
7:55 pm
Officer
May 28, 2010
Offline
Niika said:
yeah, but Tak, raid leaders have to learn too. Sometimes its hard to suggest something so that they can own it, if you know what i mean.
Niika so much needs me in the Bees-they're too proficient at the game, lol
I dare you to show up on a Firelands run and say that. Double dog dare you.
Uhh….you lost me on this. What do you mean?
4:52 am
Lodge Muse
July 3, 2010
Offline
First comment was directed at your response. What I meant is that sometimes a raid leader may not be open to suggestions to trying things differently, especially when it's a pug. I've done that fight both ways, with hunters kiting, and with DK or Pally kiting, and it seems more effective to ME to keep the two high level deepsers on the dragons, and have the off tanks picking up the adds. Advicse is often pushed aside though, when trying to make a recommendation to a raid leader who is unfamiliar with that type of fight.
The rest of the post lost the formatting. Agio was making yet another idle threat and claiming we were too proficient at the game, so I told him we were anything but, and told him to stop threatening, and dared him. We are more like the Cubs of Azeroth. Everyone wants them to win the World Series and they can JUST about make it but not tip over to get the cup. (waits for Ozzie and Abby to stop laughing in order to continue.)
Does that help?
5:27 am
Officer
May 28, 2010
Offline
Yup, cleared it up for me. Thanks.
6:04 am
Veteran
February 24, 2011
Offline
<eyes Niika warily, suspecting a trap>
Anyway…
In *every* successful Nef kill I've been a part of, a DK has tanked the adds and it's been easy dealing with them. I'd throw out a Frost Trap whenever it was off cd to help.
HOWEVER-
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/fo…..1965989796
I am SV/MM but would definitely consider switching my os to BM for this fight and breaking out Terrorpene for his moment of glory. I probably wouldn't have thought about putting the turtle tank on Passive for this, but I can see how it would work.
The potential problems I can see arising are: being sure you're BM spec/glyphs are set up properly to maintain those maxed heals on your pet, ensuring that the healers don't forget about you and your pet, and damage from Onyxia's Electric Discharge BUT hopefully you know not to stray to her sides when collecting adds.
As an aside- how many of you are glyphed in Raptor Strike and remember to use it? 
Nef's hitbox is so big it's pretty easy to be close enough to hit it before those Electrocutes and on the platforms it's a huge bonus to be able to use it while still standing there firing your ranged weapon. Come to think of it, if they can basically eliminate minimum range on that one specific add, why can't they just do it for all mobs? Hmmm.
6:10 am
Lodge Muse
August 6, 2010
Offline
Niika said:
The rest of the post lost the formatting. Agio was making yet another idle threat and claiming we were too proficient at the game, so I told him we were anything but, and told him to stop threatening, and dared him. We are more like the Cubs of Azeroth. Everyone wants them to win the World Series and they can JUST about make it but not tip over to get the cup. (waits for Ozzie and Abby to stop laughing in order to continue.)
Does that help?
I only snorted a little – maybe giggled some, no coffee came out my nose so there :-P
9:24 am
Veteran
April 10, 2010
Offline
Yeah well you should see me on a Fathom Eel Run. Doesn't matter, you have Garwulf now.
I am geting tired of having to do this fn math everytime I post. I have enough tests without that.
9:02 pm
Nef adds are pretty simple: freeze first and third, and kite second and fourth.
3:53 pm
Officer
September 8, 2010
Offline
Abbytini said:
Niika said:
The rest of the post lost the formatting. Agio was making yet another idle threat and claiming we were too proficient at the game, so I told him we were anything but, and told him to stop threatening, and dared him. We are more like the Cubs of Azeroth. Everyone wants them to win the World Series and they can JUST about make it but not tip over to get the cup. (waits for Ozzie and Abby to stop laughing in order to continue.)
Does that help?
I only snorted a little – maybe giggled some, no coffee came out my nose so there :-P
hehe, I laughed, but that's what makes the bees so much fun, we are definitely good at having the fun 
5:12 am
I was able to read the initial post but not all that follow if I wanted time to respond, and I think this is very important if it hasnt been said already….
A lone MM hunter (especially one still learning) can NOT handle the adds in a 25 man nef… there are too many, period. 10 man sure! I do it all the time… but 25 man is not possible for one mm hunter alone unless they are some super leet badass who solos shit for breakfast (and even then i'd still bet on them adds til i saw it for myself…). If hunters are to do them in 25 man you need atleast 2 and a bm would be helpful… and a dedicated "add healer" to follow them. A hunter with a mage for frost nova may also work if they are used to working together. But a 25 man PUG, throwing all the adds on one hunter is a fail pug already and I would have told them to shove it.
I wouldn't go changing/adding specs just for this fight because the simple fact is, you shouldnt be doing it at all on 25 man… a DK should be doing it, and whens the last time u saw a 25 man without a dk?? lol And if asked to do it on 10 man, a lone marks hunter shouldnt have an issue, even without a turtle.
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